Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:22 Welcome to the Refinitiv Sustainability Perspectives podcast. Today, we continue our Women in FinTech series all throughout March. We're spotlighting women who are delivering solutions today that will shape the FinTech industry tomorrow. Anna Anderson was named a tech industry insider by cnn three years in a row. Her background includes c e o for cloud storage provider for sync. Then she became, became co-founder of paari, a collaboration software in the funeral industry. After exiting Pari, Anna joined the founding team at Domino Data Lab, working on building an enterprise data science management platform. Currently, Anna is running a boutique B2B marketing firm, formulated by and is founder of the data science Community event series, data Science Salon, and is also a contributor on data science and marketing at Forbes. Welcome, Anna, to the podcast. I'm really curious to hear about your firm formulated by and really bringing together events with AI and the spin there. But first of all, if the listeners are anything like me, we really want to understand what collaboration software in the funeral industry means. I have never heard of that before, so take it from there, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:01:45 Yeah, no, that's, uh, you know, I get that a lot and, um, you know, that's definitely a really, you know, kind of a, a morbid, morbid thing that people don't think about a lot, but it's actually something that's really, uh, actually solving a big problem for people because, um, you know, I'm sure a lot of us have had a death in the family, and sometimes you just have no idea what to do, uh, or where to go, uh, or pretty much how to approach the situation. So what paari does is really help, uh, per that person really kind of figure out what to do, right? How to find a funeral home, how to get rid of the body, how to really collaborate with the funeral home and the other family members, uh, to really make it like a really nice, uh, you know, obviously you can't really take all the stress out, but like less, you know, take the stress away from the family and really, um, let the software do a lot of the work, uh, and the organizing. Um, so, so that was really, you know, kind of in a nutshell what it, what what it is. It's kind of like in any industry, it's just like a SaaS platform for managing that process.
Speaker 1 00:02:53 Wow. And clearly you are a groundbreaker because, well, that's just the example, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Let's get into the areas where you are breaking more ground. Tell us about your firm formulated by, and just the use of data and science to really formulate this kind of one of a kind face-to-face digital experience. Talk to us about that. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:03:14 Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, formulated by that's, I've been, uh, you know, started this firm in San Francisco about five years ago now, and, um, moved it to Miami. Uh, and we've really flourished here and really, you know, we're really focused on a niche space, machine learning, data science and ai. So we work with companies that are, you know, pretty much, um, you know, doing innovative, uh, groundbreaking things in that space and help them with marketing. And we are very data driven on our end as well. We have, you know, uh, when we were doing our in-person events, we had an algorithm, um, that we created that looked for conversations in different parts of the spec. We were focused on the US market, but we were able to figure out where people were talking about, uh, this, the topics and the conversations in the space that, you know, uh, were relevant and we would go to those markets with our events, the data science salons, and the really worked really well for us to really grow that community.
Speaker 2 00:04:16 Um, so, and we've, you know, really been able to implement that similar strategy for our clients. And then, you know, as Covid hit, we were able to pretty much pivot everything and do everything virtually. And as you can imagine, there's a lot more data out there, uh, virtually now since people are kind of communicating, uh, in a virtual world. So we were actually able to scale and grow and, uh, grow our team and everything. So, um, yeah, it's been really exciting and, uh, we're always working on a lot of different projects and seeing how many, you know, just what's going on in the industry every day. It's just really groundbreaking and I'm really, um, you know, it's, it's really an honor to be part of the space.
Speaker 1 00:04:56 So, Anna, let's start, um, from the earliest point in your career, did you start off in data? Were you a coder or was it more of a marketing strategy perspective that you had?
Speaker 2 00:05:06 Yeah, so I mean, for me, it's funny, I actually dropped out of college to, um, you know, kind of start my first company. Uh, and that was, you know, really, um, kind of what really drove me here, uh, into tech. Um, because at that time, this was, you know, more than 15 years ago now, there was no, you know, there was no boot camps or, uh, ga or, you know, academies or online coursera's or anything like that to teach you those things. So I pretty much taught myself, uh, a lot of marketing, a lot of basic coding, uh, and, you know, built that community from the ground up. And then I got acquired by a Japanese company, actually randomly. So that kind of started, you know, my career. And then I went back to school and I got my business adminis, you know, a management degree.
Speaker 2 00:05:55 Um, so, and uh, but I've always been really into kind of business, like growing business, uh, business ideas, like really, you know, uh, looking for kind of, you know, pretty much spaces where there was, you know, kind of, uh, nobody there in that space. Like the funeral industry, uh, was one of those, uh, for sure, uh, one that was a strategy just looking for people that, you know, spaces that were not yet, uh, really crowded. Um, and also marketing. Yeah, that's always been, you know, I've always, I was one of the first people on Twitter. I was always very into social media and growth and community, and that's always been the, the strategy that really, uh, that I, that I used to drive growth and the, um, endeavors that I've been involved in.
Speaker 1 00:06:42 So you mentioned that your firm was randomly acquired by a Japanese firm. I have a feeling that wasn't so random. Could you take us through the process it, for those who were interested in, you know, talking to possible, possible firms who are interested in acquiring, how do you make that happen? How do you get your firm on the market and position it so that can happen?
Speaker 2 00:07:05 Well, I think there, there's definitely a couple different ways to do that. For me, I think it was more, uh, a luck, uh, lucky thing cuz I, uh, met a person who introduced me to the buyer. Um, actually one of the first conferences I went to was Web two point ohs, uh, O'Reilly's, one of their first like tech conferences that they had. And I met that person there. And, um, yeah, I mean, and it was just kind of a random acquisition cuz they were looking for, um, I, you know, for users because I grew that community to about a quarter million, uh, you know, women from 18 to 35 and they wanted that data. So, you know, it was like a no-brainer <laugh> to get to acquire it. Uh, but I think these days, like there's definitely a lot of, you know, especially now a lot of acquisitions happening, especially internationally. So there's definitely, um, you know, you can join communities, you can find brokers that can, uh, help you, uh, sort that out. Um, because there's definitely, um, if you have a, especially data or you have a really community strong user base, so you could show, uh, monthly revenue, you can definitely, uh, make, uh, a sale, uh, for if you find the right buyer.
Speaker 1 00:08:12 So for founders who have these buyers approaching them, are there two or three top resources or mentors or top individuals that they need to have in their orbit? Who do they need to have as advisors or what resources they need to have just the top two or three?
Speaker 2 00:08:30 Well, I think it's definitely, it just depends on the size of your business, but I think if you're doing anything more than a million dollars in revenue per year, then you should definitely have, uh, like a C F O, uh, that could advise you or also like, you know, an external advisors or a board that can advise you, uh, on things like that. Um, but, you know, I couldn't really specifically give you like one individual, uh, I think it would be like case by case basis, but it would be really, you know, looking at the numbers and looking at the, you know, the p pros and cons, right? Of you staying in the business and actually generating the revenue yourself or actually selling it and having that chunk of money right. To reinvest. So, um, yeah, it's really, I think an, it's a finite, it's a kind of a numbers game here.
Speaker 1 00:09:15 Hmm. So having those finances in order always important. Yes, <laugh> as it, and as it relates to your, your business now, you came into your current business, you, you've done it before, it was something that was not new to you, but for those who are going through owning a business, particularly women, particularly now in 2021, we know the numbers of the women who exit the work, the workplace, um, over 2 million in 2020, um, pandemic related. What would you say to them right now, things can look a little bleak, things can seem, um, as if they're not moving forward quickly. What type of advice would you give to them that would really resonate for those who are going through oblique time and what could really, what could whip them up for those who are thinking about giving up at this point?
Speaker 2 00:10:01 Um, I just, I mean, I think you really kind of have to see what you like doing and kind of figure out, you know, cuz I think, uh, you know, there's cases where women have figured out that they actually wanna be stay at home moms, which I think is a totally fine thing to do. Um, and I've actually had a couple friends that ended up doing that and you know, one of them likes it and one of them doesn't <laugh>. And for the one that doesn't, I definitely always tell her that she should not give up applying for jobs. She should look for maybe, um, alternative kind of, uh, sense. They do have boot camps and great, uh, things online, um, and workshops and things that may be doing some continuous education, um, just in the field that you are interested in and maybe even starting a business or, uh, exploring an idea that you've always wanted to do. Cuz that's a really great opportunity and time to do that. Cuz right now we're gonna see a lot of growth happening Next jar, it's gonna be like the roaring twenties all over again.
Speaker 1 00:10:57 So for those who have started businesses and who are finding it a bit difficult, what sort of resources would you offer to them? Or even words of encouragement?
Speaker 2 00:11:06 Yeah, I mean I think just, uh, for me it's always been networking and meeting other women, um, and other people just who can help you. Um, and I think that's really, I, you know, it just depends again, what kind of resources they're looking for. But I think just starting, you know, if you don't, if you're not on LinkedIn already, you should definitely go on LinkedIn. You should see kind of set up your profile and me start networking with other folks on there that can help you. Also joining other, uh, groups also for, there's a lot of female led groups that, um, you know, that are really, I think, uh, I even started, um, a meetup here for female entrepreneurs in Miami five years ago. And, um, you know, I think right now we have a couple thousand members in that. And I think every, every city has something similar where you could go and ask for help and there's always somebody that can help you. Even, uh, next door is a place where people could go and ask for help and there's definitely resources that you'll find there that you never knew that you had. So I think just being very open and honest and approaching people and being friendly, uh, is really, uh, will get you really far, I think especially now.
Speaker 1 00:12:12 Right. In terms of things that would get you far, those are this great insight talking to people, networking in terms of the technical skills, what are the top three coding languages that you would recommend and are they industry specific? For example, I know I learned a bit of Python for FinTech, but are there other languages out there that you would recommend that people start learning now if they are interested in, in data analytics and data science?
Speaker 2 00:12:38 Yeah, so I mean, I think Python, uh, yeah, you, you nailed it. Python is the just overpassed r uh, as the language of the most popular coding language and data science. Uh, yeah, before it used to be r and now it's Python, but I think r is still definitely something you should consider, especially if you're doing, you know, any kind of statistics, even in marketing. Um, a lot of like heads of analytics, they, they know some R and Python. Um, but I think, you know, those are kind of the main, uh, two languages. Julia is also kind of on up and coming, so we'll kind of see what happens to that one. But I definitely Python, if you had to choose one and do that, I would l uh, focus on Python,
Speaker 1 00:13:19 The world of MarTech in five years, what's gonna be the biggest difference? Something that's really gonna catch us by surprise in terms of where it is now and where it's gonna be in the next few years? What would that one thing be?
Speaker 2 00:13:31 Um, gosh, I, I think there's just gonna be a lot more precision on, um, kind of the data that we're getting, right? There's just gonna be a lot more that information we could get to make all of our marketing and advertising much better and more targeted and more, uh, organic. Um, so I think that's where all of that is going. And I think tools like, you know, HubSpot and those kind of tools are just gonna get smarter and, um, you know, better. But I don't know, you know, again, from the marketing point, it's good from the consumer point. I don't know if that's good or bad. Um, you know, cuz the more information we have on the consumer, it's just, you know, I don't know if that's, uh, a really something that, um, people really like. Um, and I think, uh, as the generation of people that have always been on social media, we kind of let that go, but I don't think everybody's on in that boat really. But I think that's just gonna, we're gonna lose more and more privacy and data I think in the next five years.
Speaker 1 00:14:28 Data privacy continues to be a, a debate and we expect it to be a debate in the years ahead. Anna, thank you so much for joining us. Great insight.
Speaker 2 00:14:37 Thank you.
Speaker 3 00:14:39 Joining us today is Rose p Kuni, who is the founder and c e o of Sue Dozi Rose, thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 2 00:14:49 Of course. Thank you Kesa for having me.
Speaker 3 00:14:51 So one thing that's very interesting is that your background Rose is as a C F O, as a financial officer. So I would assume starting with a finance background is a pretty good place to be if you're interested in being a founder. Could you let us know your journey from being in a finance role to being in the role of founder and c e o?
Speaker 4 00:15:12 Yeah, sure, of course. I'll actually start a little bit before I got into a finance role. Um, so I was in finance at Uber, um, early in 2013, where there, uh, you know, just a few hundred employees all around the globe. Um, but actually before Uber, uh, between my M B A and uh, Uber, I actually worked at Apple in, in the iTunes department. Um, at the time, the data science and analytics team was a really small team just to, um, highlight that I was the only business analyst on the video business covering Apple tv, movies and, uh, television shows. And so from there, just using my analytics and um, business strategy skills, I actually moved into the finance department at Uber because of the organizational structure and how they had organized their, um, business analytics and, and pricing internally. And so I got into finance at Uber.
Speaker 4 00:16:06 Um, and if you've taken an Uber ride <laugh> since 2013, uh, I actually oversaw of pricing both macro and micro. Um, so if you had a search price or dynamic of priced ride, um, I was responsible for the algorithms and, and the pricing strategy there globally. Um, and, and at Uber, you know, because of the way the company grew from 2013 onwards, I really got to see how FinTech played a role internally in the payment rails and moving money from riders to drivers, um, from the finance workflows and then also algorithms and optimization. And so that's really what got me interested in the career in FinTech. And then afterwards, I, I really, uh, doubled down on the actual being a vice president of finance and then A C F O at two FinTech companies afterwards. Um, and so after that then, then founding Suzi,
Speaker 3 00:17:02 So going into it to being the founder of Suzi, you mentioned quite an interesting path from being a C F O to going into Suzi mm-hmm. <affirmative>. What particular characteristics, what skills do you think served you well as you were contemplating becoming, um, a founder?
Speaker 4 00:17:20 The, the ability to have, uh, the quantitative skills, um, certainly helped me transition from being a C F O to, to a founder. Um, also, I op had the opportunity to have a diverse set of experiences in different companies prior to being a founder from analytics to product, actually into some design aspect as well. Um, you'd be surprised how much design actually impacts, uh, FinTech and, and financial products. And so those exposures also helped me transition to being a founder.
Speaker 3 00:17:54 So we, we talked about what helped you transition, and I'm sure that there are probably people, mentors, role models in the industry that really gave you some insight. Could you talk us through how you came across these role models? Are these mentors or even sponsors and what did they bestow upon you to help you make that switch?
Speaker 4 00:18:14 Yeah, and I, you know, I've had the fortune of working with a number of great role models, um, both direct managers and, and people who I've sort of watched <laugh> as they've taken on leadership roles, um, in the FinTech world directly. I think just watching Max Levchin and had the opportunity to be in a small session with him once, but seeing how he saw the problems that existed in both companies that he's at PayPal and firm, and a couple others where other people didn't see that there were problems there, but he turned what he saw and the insights he had into amazing business solutions and, and really companies that are, are, are so large now. Um, so those, that's kind of a higher level aspirational mentor. Um, closer to me, the CEOs I've worked with, um, at all the companies I've been at, I've had the opportunity to work with them relatively closely. I I've seen them really just, um, be able to fight through various challenges, whether it be people's opinions or actual business challenges and, and, um, see them persevere. And that's really had an impact on me and, and my decision to found a company.
Speaker 3 00:19:23 Great. And, and also in terms of your decision to found the company, especially in terms of seeing the challenges that some of your c e o partners have, um mm-hmm. <affirmative> have really gone through. We know about Uber and some of the issues around pay as well as around gender, um, alleged gender or discrimination issues that were alleged. Um, could you give us some thoughts around how that helped you better design your own company and some of the social issues that were top of mind for you as you were inspired to create your firm?
Speaker 4 00:19:55 Yeah, and, uh, this is, you know, very something I, I, I speak to pretty frequently with people I interview and just have conversations with. I think a lot of the chaos that is sometimes caused, uh, or attributed to being a startup, um, can actually be resolved with good communication. And, um, some, a little bit more focus on hr earlier on, you know, not a ton, you don't have to spend all day <laugh> focusing on hr, but really having that empathy of the employee base, having the empathy of the person who you're speaking with and whether it be the customer, uh, a teammate and, uh, a, uh, someone who reports to you. Um, having more of that earlier on is, uh, can help tremendously as you're scaling the company. And so something I've, uh, focused on earlier on is actually doing more of that. Um, again, it's not at the distraction of the business and I actually think it helps accelerate the business later on. Uh, a quick example is that I actually offer, um, health insurance already, even though we're just a few employees. And so having that, um, empathy, uh, earlier on, um, in my opinion has really can really just accelerate the business later and not distract it with, uh, some of these other issues.
Speaker 3 00:21:10 Hmm. Wow. So that, that's great. That really gave me the vibes of some, um, of John Mackey's kind of compassion leadership with the insurance piece, especially really interesting. Let, let's get into sudo. Tell us about the model and tell us what you're looking to change with your firm.
Speaker 4 00:21:26 Yeah, so josi really came out of my personal challenges trying to find a software that did, uh, this set of function that I'm, I'm solving for. And, um, you know, the best example is actually, um, an analogy where, uh, there are enterprise level softwares to help companies manage vendors, um, keep track of spend requests internally and just have a better organized process around spend, especially as we are in a much more remote environment. You know, it's very hard to go to a finance person and tap 'em on the shoulder and say, Hey, I'm gonna spend, you know, x, y, Z on a marketing campaign, um, and I'll send you an invoice later. And so all that could just be quite overwhelming at a large, at even a small organization. And so I looked into softwares, you know, there are softwares out there like Coupa s, sap, Ariba.
Speaker 4 00:22:15 Um, my analogy there is, is like you would for, for a company that's, you know, 50 people to 500 people, if you get those softwares, it's like buying a school bus to drop off, you know, two kids at daycare <laugh>. Um, and so I didn't really find anything that was both fitting my budget as well as, um, the software tools that I needed to help manage vendors and track data the way I needed to track them. And, um, eventually lead to, uh, helping the expedite forecasting and budgeting as well. And so I'm building this set of tools and features to help finance leaders in a small and medium sized companies, you know, maybe a couple hundred people. Um, really be able to have a lightweight process of tracking vendors when those renewals are coming up, um, how frequently you're paying these vendors to help keep track of cash flow. And also, um, being, being aware of who internally in your organization is responsible for each of these vendors. You know, do you have two different contracts with the same vendor from different departments? Um, all of that stuff is, is pretty hard to keep track of manually.
Speaker 3 00:23:27 I love that analogy. Buying a school bus to pick up two kids. That's, that's perfect. That really describes, you know, I think in a very fundamental way, the light we process to track vendors and tracking cash flow when you're looking at really scaling for your business size. So excellent on that. A lot of what we're talking about, rose has its roots in stem, so science, technology, engineering, math, et cetera. Could you talk to us a bit about your STEM background, particularly as a younger person, as as a youth, and how do you think that impacted your decision in terms of moving towards software right now at this point in your career?
Speaker 4 00:24:08 Yeah, so I was, uh, fortunate enough to have, I went to a public school system that did actually have a computer science, it had a research program. Um, and I was able to partake in some of those programs at the high school level. You know, I I, I, there weren't in my memory those equivalent opportunities at a middle school level or earlier. And I think if I had, you know, if those opportunities existed, I would've definitely been interested in that. But I certainly had exposure to software development and, um, some of these other fields at an earlier level, and that really had a big impact on me. And so after I graduated from college, I helped, um, uh, work with an organization that brought, uh, actually, uh, app development and oppor entrepreneurship to high school and younger girls. And I think that's the earlier you can expose, um, all genders and all races to this type of, um, activity, you know, more quantitative, um, you know, entrepreneurship type activity. I think the less you have to do to do catch up later. And so my, you know, my strategy and my belief is like the, the earlier you can expose people to this, um, the more equal it's gonna be later on.
Speaker 3 00:25:22 And speaking of equality and exposure, which is a great point, you know, there's been progress made recently to address the gap in terms of pay, in terms of equity mm-hmm. <affirmative>, in your opinion, what can be done to help us get there quicker? And are you able, as a founder, as a CEO of your own company, have you been able to come across any tips or any strategies that can help us get there quicker in terms of getting to pay equity?
Speaker 4 00:25:47 Yeah, so I, I certainly do. I think, you know, I can talk on this question for, uh, many minutes just on this question, but I'll focus on, you know, in, in the stage later stage of career and, um, and, you know, salary and whatnot. And I think one of the things I've seen in the tech industry is having specific requirements for roles that, um, may not necessarily actually be helpful for that role. Uh, and so I'll, I'll just focus on, you know, product, for example, in, in many product roles, one of the requirements is having an engineering degree. And I think that companies who have that can evaluate what they're actually trying to go after with having that engineering degree. Because as we all know, you know, certainly having that degree cuts down on a number of female candidates, um, that are eligible for that product role. Um, and I think, you know, many times you don't actually need the degree, but you, you need the ability to think and to have logic that, um, that typically is correlated with an engineering degree, but, but engineering degree itself doesn't cause that. And so really having hiring managers and companies evaluate what is it they're trying to go after with these, um, required, um, credentials and trying to come up with ways to evaluate those requirements, uh, through the interview process or otherwise in a different way.
Speaker 3 00:27:09 And that's something that we're seeing a lot Rose. We're seeing a lot of companies think twice about, first of all college degrees, period, and then <affirmative> if you have mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like how specialized does it have to be? Have you seen a lot of traction being made there for companies actually saying, you know what, we're going to either not require a degree here, we're not gonna de require a certain specialized area focus. How, how broadly do you think that's been adopted at this point?
Speaker 4 00:27:34 I think there's been good progress. I think there can be more. Um, I think that particularly at sort of larger technology companies, um, internal movement to roles have, uh, been fairly, I I'd say fairly good at relaxing the, um, I'll call 'em unnecessary requirements, uh, for the sake of this conversation. And so I think having those, uh, organizations, organizations as they get larger, um, finding talent internally, um, ha has been great. I think from an external perspective, um, I also think that various coding academies, uh, have come up that really show that these skills can be, um, learned and, and you don't have to have a four year college degree to, to have these skills. And so, uh, I also think that has been helpful in the industry externally, but I do think more can be done across the board.
Speaker 3 00:28:27 Absolutely. So what, what are you most excited about Rose as it relates to su dozi and as it relates to FinTech in general? Is there something that's coming down the pipeline in 2021 or maybe even further out that gets you really excited about the industry?
Speaker 4 00:28:40 Yeah, I, I think across the board on both B2B FinTech as well as consumer FinTech, there is a lot changing and a lot still to come. Um, this is one of those industries where, you know, if you think about your, your technology used 10 years ago, you know, the consumer, um, experience, whether it be social media or just how you live your life day to day has been changed a lot by technology. I think in the next 10 years, um, the way that we move money and the way that finance professionals work is going to be dramatically altered by technology. You know, I would love to say like Suzi's gonna play a huge part in that, and I hope that's true, but whether it be sudo or other FinTech companies and tools, I, I do think that that change is coming.
Speaker 3 00:29:24 Wow. And that definitely, I think, speaks to the changes that we've seen over just the last couple of years and five years from now. It's very interesting to see and think about where we will be. Rose PanCan, thank you so much for speaking to us about Suzi, about your journey and about the FinTech
Speaker 5 00:29:40 Industry overall.
Speaker 4 00:29:42 Well, thank you for having me, Kisa. This has been fun.
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