Episode Transcript
Jane: Emma, welcome, and thank you for joining us on Net Zero Conversations.
Emma: It's great to be here, Jane. Thank you for inviting me.
Jane: You're welcome. So, you wear a number of professional hats. Please tell us a bit more about that. Your role at the Environment Agency and also the Green Finance Institute.
Emma: I'm currently chair of the Environment Agency in England. We are the environmental regulator. We also have responsibility for flood and coastal erosion risk management, which has been very much on my agenda over the last few years in this role. I have a background in finance, and I'm currently chair of the Green Finance Institute here in London.
Jane: How is the Environment Agency working on climate generally? What's the strategy?
Emma: We are focusing on net zero and the climate agenda in many, many different ways through our work. If we start off with flood and coastal erosion risk management, this is about better protecting communities, lives, livelihoods up and down the country. We've just delivered our five-year flood program, some £2.6 billion worth of infrastructure, better protecting individuals, communities from flood risk, and have started a new program where that budget has doubled, because of the events that we've been seeing from a climate change perspective. But we also work on the net zero agenda through our environmental regulatory work. For example, we are the administer of the UK emissions trading scheme. We administered that when we were part of Europe. We also, as an organization, have made our own net zero commitment, and we intend to meet net zero by 2030 throughout our operations.
Jane: It's important that you also walk the talk, right? So, it's important. How can other countries build this kind of climate adaptation resilience into their long term plans?
Emma: I think this is one of the elements of our net zero work that as we race towards net zero, we also need to be racing towards resilience as well. For too long, whether it's in this country or around the world, we've seen adaptation and resilience preparing for climate shocks like floods, heat waves, droughts, other climatic events, as something separate to our mitigation work, the need to reduce our emissions at scale and very, very quickly. We need to bring those things together. Otherwise, we risk all of our net zero investments literally being washed away in a flood or melting in a heat wave. This is something that it might not feel quite so urgent here in the UK, although we have been experiencing ever more frequent flood-related events. It is very, very relevant in other parts of the world. Just this year, just last month, earlier this month, we've seen heat waves in India, Pakistan, a billion people having their lives and livelihoods affected by too much heat. And again, around the world, different storms, different flooding events, leading to loss of life.
Jane: Does the UK, through the Environment Agency or other bodies, share best practice with other countries so that we can help other countries in that adaptation work?
Emma: We share best practice, but we also have a huge amount to learn from other countries that are at the forefront of the climate change agenda. I think this is particularly relevant for adaptation and resilience where other parts of the world have had to because of the impacts that they've been experiencing. Be looking at how they rebuild their infrastructure, building back better, but also how they prepare for incidents and make sure their communities, their individuals, their citizens are ready for dealing with the climate shocks that are happening at an evermore frequent basis. I think this is where those of us who are working in the global north have a huge amount to learn from in terms of getting prepared for these events that we are seeing more frequently.
Jane: We've heard people talking about kind of the pace, the pace of change and progress, not being adequate. From your perspective, what can the finance sector and other parties do to really accelerate, get things going quicker towards net zero?
Emma: We're seeing and we've heard about some of the huge progress that has been made since COP26 heading towards COP27. The whole purpose of the event that we've been attending for the last day is about showing that progress. I think where we are seeing things move at pace is through collaboration, bringing together sectors with the world of finance, the different types of finance that are applicable to funding net zero, linking it to the real economy and to those sectors where we can start driving change. So, I think that the progress that we're seeing is definitely gearing up, but we also need to see that feed through to real projects on the ground being invested in.
Jane: Yeah, tangible projects that people can see for themselves. When we talk about net zero, I think you touched on it before, often people think about it's just about getting emissions down or that's the kind of the main point, but do we need to think more carefully about some of the wider issues as we kind of accelerate and get those emissions down? Are there unintended consequences or wider issues that we need to be mindful of?
Emma: We are still dealing, in this country, around the world, with the unintended consequences of the first industrial revolution. We need to make sure that the Green Industrial Revolution allows for innovation, but also is structured in a way that means that if mistakes aren't made, if there are unintended consequences in relation to nature, in particular air quality, water quality, that we are engaging in a way that we will make sure that the polluter pays. We don't want to slow down that innovation. One of the ways that we can do this is making sure that different regulators are working together. And by that, I mean, the financial regulators, again, heard a lot about that today, but also economic regulators and the relevant environmental regulators. If we are working together and allowing some of our innovation, some of the regulatory sandboxes that are being referred, to make sure that we are looking at those unintended consequences. Then, I think, we can move at pace, but that requires everybody to engage and everybody to be aware of the risks that are being taken, but allowing for them to be dealt with if things do go wrong.
Jane: Thank you. You mentioned nature though, which I just want to touch on briefly in terms of, it feels like nature is the forgotten part in all of this sometimes, but actually nature can be a massive part of the solution. Tell me about what the Environment Agency is doing with respect to biodiversity and natural capital.
Emma: Nature is so integral to how we deal with both net zero, but also our adaptation and resilience program. Again, it's essential to weave nature into our work. We see this with our flood program in particular, but often the work that we are doing to provide better flood protection is the flip side of dealing with too little water as well. There's a massive role for gray infrastructure, but as we work on flood in particular, slowing the flow, using nature, the natural environment, different interventions, higher up river catchment, can really make a difference in terms of the flood event when it hits the urban environment.
Emma: But at the same times of helping with the flood agenda, it is also helping with the net zero agenda as well. The things that we can do with our peatland also absorbs carbon. So, it's a win for both the net zero agenda. It's a win for preparing for climate shocks, but we need to make sure that we are restoring nature at the same time. One of the ways I look at it is comparing our infrastructure budget for flood with the program of infrastructure investment for the UK as a whole.
Emma: The Infrastructure and Projects Authority has set out a program of £650 billion worth of investment in new infrastructure in the UK by 2030. If you look at the flood budget, it's a thin green line of defense. We need to make sure that we are working together, as that infrastructure is built, it has net zero at its heart. It is being built in a way that is preparing for climate shocks, but also works alongside and with nature as well, so that we are better protecting our natural environment at the same time. A huge win if we get that right.
Jane: A final question, if we may. As we look towards COP27, it's a tricky question, but if there was one thing to make it a key success, what's the one thing we need to get right?
Emma: We need to make sure that we get the finance world aligned around investing in net zero, but resilience and nature need to be at the heart of that as well. Adaptation resilience will be firmly on the agenda at the African COP, and it's a whole world issue. We all need to get our arms around it and support financing resilience.
Jane: Thanks so much for your time, Emma.
Emma: Thank you.
