Jane Goodland: Hello and welcome back to the 1st episode of 2025 and the 1st episode of season 10 of the LSEG sustainable growth podcast where we talk to leading experts about sustainability and finance, I'm Jane Goodland. And this week we're talking to Clare Brooke, who's the CEO of Blue Marine Foundation, Europe's largest marine conservation NGO. Now Clare spent the 1st 25 years of her career in investment management as a true trailblazer of sustainable investment before moving into the NGO world 10 years ago. Now, I was genuinely incited when she agreed to come onto the show, and we're in for a treat. But before we hear from Clare a quick reminder to follow us and rate us on spotify, apple podcasts, or any other platform you use. So let's hear from Clare.
Hello, Clare, thanks for coming on show. It's so great to see you on what is actually a freezing morning here in the UK. So thanks, for you know, bracing the cold weather to join us on the show. Now, as I said in the intro, you've started your career in the investment industry before moving into the NGO world. I'm fascinated about your career. Can you tell us more about your journey?
Clare Brook: Well, thanks, Jane, thanks so much for having me. I started working in the sustainable and environmental investing industry in well, when it wasn't really an industry. It was very new back in 1990, and we were pioneers, really. I was working with Tessa Tennant and Mark Campanile back at Jupiter on the Uk's 1st green, as they were called then funds. So this was really the genesis of what's now known as positive or impact investing. And we worked at Jupiter for 4 years, and then we moved to NPI, where we set up the global care range of funds, and we had a great time in the late nineties, because our funds outperformed. Mainstream funds by a long way. So we really were making the case that environmental investing, investing in these industries of the future that we term them. Then these solutions to the problems that we're now all too familiar with but were less talked about then of the climate crisis, and so on, that these investments were outperforming the kind of latent industries that they were set to replace. Then, after a brief spell at Henderson, where you and I nearly.
Jane Goodland: Indeed. You left there in 2000, I think. I then joined in 2001 or something. So I think, yeah, it's fair to say that our careers have been in a similar orbit, but we've never quite overlapped, have we? So you went off to Aviva Then at that point.
Clare Brook: That's right. So there the team and I established the sustainable Investment Division at Aviva, and what was exciting there was not only did we have a whole range of funds dedicated to investing again in these industries of the future. But we were engaging on the entirety of Aviva's funds under management. So typically we would be among the largest shareholders of any of the FTSE companies, FTSE 250 companies. So we were able to engage with real authority and influence there. And we helped to bring about, I think, a major shift in the level of environmental reporting in the early 2000s. Then in 2008. I co-founded wheb asset management. WHEB, asset management, which is a startup. It's now thriving, I'm very happy to say, under the team that were working with you at Henderson. And that was an impact investment organization investing in again solutions to climate and investing in these emerging industries. But come 2014. I'd been in that whole world of sustainable investing for 24 years. So I took the decision. Rather strange decision in a way. Maybe not the most financially astute decision that I'd set up web asset management to leave and join what was then a very small NGO called Blue Marine foundation.
Jane Goodland: And why did you do that? Because that is an interesting pivot, as some people say, in terms of you know you spent your life doing sustainable investing, or various different forms of it. You know, entrepreneur, setup businesses, etc. And then in 2014, you think I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going to go and join a really quite small NGO. What was the motivation.
Clare Brook: Well, partly impatience, because I think over the course of the time that I've been in sustainable investment I'd watched all the indicators that we're all too conscious of. You know, the level of warming biodiversity decline parts per 1 million of Co2 going into the atmosphere growth of the fossil fuel industry all of that, just all going the wrong way. And while I felt that sustainable investment was having an impact, it was like we were. We were moving the dial. It was too slow. For my for my liking. And, by the way, I think this is still the case. Yeah, I mean you and I talking. We're looking out at frost in the Uk. But La is on fire. You know, we are at a point of crisis in the world. And so I think, just dial moving, getting better reporting. Setting up kind of nascent industries is clearly not enough. So that was one motivating factor. I really wanted to do something much more impactful within a faster timeframe, and when I first encountered blue marine foundation through my friend Cindy Ford. it seemed to be so fast paced, such an incredibly dynamic little charity that was having a huge impact in ocean conservation. They were pressing for the creation of marine protected areas that can be seen from space. They were engaging in shifting models of fishing towards sustainable fishing in a really proactive way, and it just struck me as such an incredibly exciting place to work, and I kind of couldn't resist.
Jane Goodland: That's always. That's always the sign of a really good job. Move, isn't it? Is this, it's just. You can't not do it. So tell me a bit more about blue marine because you've been there for 10 years now, so presumably it's changed from what was then a small charity to, I think, like one of the largest European NGOs in conservation, right?
Clare Brook: Yes, we've grown 12 fold since.
Jane Goodland: On what metric is that, by the way, in what?
Clare Brook: So from 10 million, from a million turnover to 12 million turn of it, I'll just say that again. So it's grown from a million turnover to 12 million pounds turnover, which is.
Jane Goodland: Which is, I guess, also a kind of a representation of how much interest there is in the topic that the foundation is kind of active on right.
Clare Brook: Oh, absolutely. Because what blue marine is doing is that we're addressing one of the world's most serious but least addressed environmental crises which is the destruction of the ocean through overfishing. And why does that matter? Well, because the ocean is the source of all life on earth. It's the largest carbon sink on the planet, it provides us with half the oxygen we breathe, it regulates our climate. Without the ocean the earth would be 36 degrees warmer. But it can only provide these vital functions by dint of the life within it. And what is going on at the moment is through large scale. I mean huge industrial scale fishing. We are systematically emptying the ocean of that life. So we're destroying vital carbon storing habitats. We're destroying all the fish stocks. We're destroying, therefore, livelihoods and food for people who need it most, who rely on seafood as their main source of protein, and that's being carried out in a very senseless and wasteful way. So Blue Marine is working on getting much more of the ocean placed under protection, free from this industrial scale fishing. And we're doing that by pressing for the creation of marine protected areas. But we're also tackling the worst excesses of overfishing in various different ways, using different techniques like investigation.
Jane Goodland: And that's where I'd really like to understand a bit more about the techniques and the tactics that you use, because I think from those people who aren't working in NGOs understand that they see Greenpeace, and they see WWF, and they see lots of different NGOs, but they don't all employ the same levers or techniques. So, for example, I'm keen to understand, are you engaging on policy? Are you taking direct action? What are you doing day to day to, to deliver on your mission?
Clare Brook: So, you're quite right. So no, we're not scaling buildings, as it were. But yes, we are absolutely engaging on policy, and that can take many forms. So you can talk to politicians direct and to government officials direct, or you can urge the public. So the people who vote for them to make them care about it more. But we also use the law quite a lot. So either reminding countries that they have a legal obligation to do something, but, if need be, actually take legal action against a government which we're engaged in on a couple of fronts at the moment. And then there are things like media and awareness raising through film blue marine was born out of a film called the End of the Line, which I would urge anyone to watch because it's still very relevant, although a lot of progress has been made since the film was made in 2009. It's still a great film drawing awareness to the extent to which the oceans are being plundered.
Jane Goodland: That's really, really fascinating. And I think we should all watch that film. Let's just be really clear, though what's the ultimate mission of blue marine?
Clare Brook: So our mission is to see 30% of the ocean protected by 2030. And the good news is that that's also the world's mission, because 196 countries have signed the global biodiversity framework that happened at coming Montreal in December 2022. But signing up to a framework is one thing implementing, it is another. And unfortunately, the amount of ocean that's actually protected at the moment is about 8.3%. So we've obviously got a massive gap between the amount protected and getting to 30 by 30. So Blue Marine's role is as an agitator and an enabler really to persuade countries to protect their territorial waters at least 30% of their territorial waters. And as we were talking about earlier to make sure that the high seas are protected. So areas beyond national jurisdiction which cover around 2 thirds of the ocean.
Jane Goodland: So a lot to do in the next 5 years from 8.3 to 30%. So you're going to be busy. I just want to clear up something, I suppose, because when we kind of hear the terms ocean protection and conservation. I think that maybe some people may kind of come up with this image of marine life wrapped in a bit of plastic or something like that? Because that's on our screens a lot, isn't it. But can you just kind of talk to me about the relative threats that the ocean is facing, and why you guys are so focused on the on the fishing side of things.
Clare Brook: Yeah, sure. So threats to the ocean fall into 3 main categories. First of all, we're putting too much of the wrong stuff into the ocean, so plastic pollution exactly as you say, but also agrochemical pollution, sewage, microplastics, runoff from car tires, etc. Etc. Then we're warming them through climate change. So the ocean is not only a kind of solution to climate change, but it's also a victim of climate change. And through the action of drawing down carbon. It's becoming more acidic as well. So that's another major problem and threat to marine life. And finally, we're taking life out of the ocean far faster than it can regenerate. And so it's on the over extraction of life that blue marine is focused. And we have other fantastic colleagues in the NGO world who are focused on these other threats.
Jane Goodland: And having said that, though I think it's really interesting if we can just explore the connection between climate change and ocean health because we do talk about climate change a lot on this show. So it'd be good just to make the connections between that. So tell me a bit more about that.
Clare Brook: So the ocean absorbs carbon through all sorts of mechanisms, but really, by dint of the life within it. So whether that's whales or microalgae, or habitats, or the ocean floor itself. It's all drawing down carbon all the time, and it's really at the cutting edge of science to try and understand how those mechanisms work, but, above all. the extent to which the ocean is drawing down carbon, because if we understand that, in fact, the seabed is storing far more carbon than was previously recognized than anyone who is fishing using a technique that is disturbing that carbon or ripping up the habitats that are storing so much, then that is clearly not only appalling from a biodiversity point of view, but it's appalling from a climate point of view. So we are funding a science project, thanks to convex insurance and in partnership with Exeter University to quantify the amount of carbon that is stored in the seabed itself, and we had hope that that will be a bit of a game changer.
Jane Goodland: But that I'm so curious about that, because when you think about how much collective energy and attention and science and effort and policymaker time is put into climate change, mitigation, adaptation, management, understanding. If the ocean is the world's biggest carbon sink, why then, are we not seeing ocean protection and conservation being a much higher profile, mitigant and kind of focus of policy within the climate change, debate.
Clare Brook: Well, I think, partly because it is a new area of developing science, it is quite cutting edge. And so this understanding is only just developing, and particularly the quantification side is very nascent. So, although we can quantify, for example, how much carbon mangroves store something like kelp is still, you know much, much more uncertain, let alone fish themselves. Fish have a function whereby they eat at the surface, and then pass the carbon down through kind of pooping and sort of cycle of life. And it's incredibly hard to measure that, because how many fish are in the sea they move around? How does it work. So like a lot of nature, you know, it's rather beyond human comprehension, I think, until now we've operated in these quite kind of linear approaches to industry and commerce, and so on, without taking into account this incredibly complex mechanism that is the natural world.
Jane Goodland: Yeah, I mean, it's so incredibly interconnected and linked that like, you say, it's almost beyond human comprehension, which is a worry in itself. Let's move on to the role you just mentioned commerce. Let's roll move on to the role of finance. In particular, I'm curious, really, about what role that sector could play, because we really are starting to see the finance sector mobilise around climate change. Now, people could say, it's not quick enough. It's not big enough. There's a massive investment gap. which is, of course, true. But what's the potential for the financial sector in the context of ocean health and not ocean protection. What could we see, for example.
Clare Brook: Well, we could and we are seeing some really interesting developments around things like blue bonds. Debt for nature swaps kind of blended finance around a blended finance facility to support marine protected areas. There are investment based mechanisms, for example, in venture capital. So the founders of blue marine foundation. George Duffield and Chris girl Barnes, have set up something called Ocean 14 Capital, which is designed to invest in kind of early stage companies which are solutions to the biodiversity crisis in the ocean. So there's lots going on. It's early stage, of course, it needs to be bigger, of course, but we at Blue Marine have set up something called blue economics, another division of blue marine which aims to look at the whole way, that the ocean is currently valued, which is basically on an exploitive model. So the so-called blue economy is really all geared to transport to energy. So oil and gas or offshore wind fishing, of course, tourism. But all of those activities have a greater or lesser extent, an extremely damaging impact on the health of the ocean. So what we'd like to see is a shift from this exploitative model of how we interrelate with the ocean to a protection model. which is, you know, complicated. So we've got to find a way of valuing the services that the ocean provides, so biodiversity and carbon in a way that that can be kind of invested in, if you like, and that is definitely easier said than done. But a lot of very brilliant people are working on that, and we're trying to work on that as well.
Jane Goodland: It sounds fascinating, and I would encourage those working in investment firms to maybe check that out right, because that could be really interesting. If we get more people thinking those terms and looking at kind of this nascent area of the market, I think we're probably up for time. But again, this is such a fascinating topic we could go on. Can we leave with just a few final thoughts, I suppose, for what people listening might think, Yes, but what can I do I'm left thinking, wow, this is big and huge topic. So what are there things that you would advise? Individuals can go away and do.
Clare Brook: Yes, absolutely so. I think one of the problems as we've touched on is that politicians aren't feeling the urgency of this crisis. I mean arguably of the whole climate crisis, but also the crisis in the ocean of the mass extraction of life. So, anyone who really loves the ocean and cares about it. I would urge them to write to their political representative and tell them that you care about it. Tell them that we need to ratify the high seas treaty that we need to move faster towards 30% protection of our territorial waters, get engaged and get political about it. And that's a really important thing to do, because politicians don't think we care. Secondly, if you work in finance, we'd love to talk to you, because, as I say blue economics was set up really because I left the world of finance and joined the world of NGOs, and I was quite surprised that in the world of NGOs. On the whole, people aren't thinking that much in terms of financial solutions to these global problems and in the world of finance. With some exceptions, of course, people aren't really addressing the crisis in nature and the need to make a massive change to the way we're responding to that. So via blue economics. We're trying to explore developing financial mechanisms that will change that. So, do drop us a line, as it were, and finally, if you or your organization would like to make a donation to blue marine foundation we’d be thrilled because you know that that would always come in handy.
Jane Goodland: Of course. So I suggest that people go and check out your website because I'm sure that there's lots of information on there. Can you tell us what the website address is? Please.
Clare Brook: Blue marinefoundation.com.
Jane Goodland: Well, there you go. That's super simple. No reason not to check it out. Thank you so much, Clare. It's been fascinating, and I think what you've dedicated your working life to is incredible. And I want to be able to help. And I want everyone else to help. And you're doing amazing work. So keep it up and thank you.
Clare Brook: I have a very fascinating job every day. It's thrilling.
Jane Goodland: You do and thanks for sharing that with us today. So thanks very much.
Clare Brook: Thanks. Jane.
Jane Goodland: That's it. For this episode of the Lseg sustainable growth. Podcast I do hope. You enjoyed that conversation with Clare. I personally found it really, really fascinating and eye opening Indeed. If you've got questions, comments, or someone you'd like us to talk to, then do get in touch by email at
[email protected], that's all from me. But watch out for the next episode of season 10 very soon.
